• This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn more.

I hate cars ... I really do





DonTom

Obsessed Member
Forum Supporter
2019 Supporter
#21
Tell me again how energy efficient all those mining vehicles are .
If we really want to worry about such stuff, we better stop producing just about everything.

See here.

"But according to an article published by TIME, “lithium mining, as observed in countries with deposits like Chile, Argentina and China, seems to be less hazardous than other kinds of mineral extraction. ‘Lithium could be one of the least contaminating mining processes,’ says Marco Octavio Rivera of Bolivia’s Environmental Defense League, although he notes that prolonged exposure to lithium can cause nervous system disorders.”

And about mining vehicles, here is the largest EV in the world and it never needs to be charged.

-Don- Reno
 
Last edited:

Gullwing

Padawan Apprentice 3rd Class
Staff member
Moderator
#24
The biggest RWNJ I know lives in SF and refuses to move.

Believe it or not, there are a few RWNJs who live in SF & love it there. They are just greatly outnumbered and don't talk politics with many others.

FWIW, I was born in SF and lived in the area most of my life, yet I never lived in the city itself, just south of it. And I also worked in SF for 40 years.

But I am glad to be out of that area. The traffic is ridiculous and the roads are rarely improved.

-Don- Reno
Ok so how many of those "RWNJ" were voted into public office? But thanks for completely missing my point.
 

DonTom

Obsessed Member
Forum Supporter
2019 Supporter
#25
Ok so how many of those "RWNJ" were voted into public office? But thanks for completely missing my point.
He never gets what he votes for. But he would rather be part of the solution than part of the problem. Besides, there is more to life than politics.

So there are my two points that you missed.

-Don- Reno
 

Gullwing

Padawan Apprentice 3rd Class
Staff member
Moderator
#26
He never gets what he votes for. But he would rather be part of the solution than part of the problem. Besides, there is more to life than politics.

So there are my two points that you missed.

-Don- Reno
Ok so OP says he hates cars because of electrical issue. You tell him to go full electric.

I say it is the same as someone saying they hate one political party and you telling them to move to their headquarters.

You then say someone else who hates those politics also lives there.

Ok great......

Now you say "he never gets what he votes for" so basically electric is crap but we will be forced with it.
Got it (y)
 

DonTom

Obsessed Member
Forum Supporter
2019 Supporter
#27
You tell him to go full electric.
There is less electrical stuff in EVs than in ICE cars, and by far.

For a few examples, in EVs, no ignition system, no alternator, no map sensor, no CPS, no TPS, fuel pump, fuel injectors, distributor, ignition coils, spark plugs and wires, etc. etc. etc. That's all electrical stuff.

EVs are mainly just a battery, controller and motor for the important stuff. Not a lot of things to break down electrically.

-Don- Reno
 

Tophog

Biker Trailer Trash
Staff member
Moderator
Forum Supporter
2019 Supporter
2020 Supporter
2021 Supporter
#28
Damn, I have to drive to San Francisco tomorrow to look at a gas guzzling Harley Trike! At least I'm taking a somewhat fuel efficient Chevy Cruze.

If the ICE/EV/DC/LGBTQAEIOU and sometimes W and Y crowd gets me, at least it been a hell of a ride. :)
 

Harley

Golf-Foxtrot-Yankee
Forum Supporter
2020 Supporter
2021 Supporter
#29
Damn, I have to drive to San Francisco tomorrow to look at a gas guzzling Harley Trike! At least I'm taking a somewhat fuel efficient Chevy Cruze.

If the ICE/EV/DC/LGBTQAEIOU and sometimes W and Y crowd gets me, at least it been a hell of a ride. :)
Hey I didnt get the memo for a road trip!
 

NYECOGunsmith

WILL BAN FOR AAA
Staff member
Moderator
Forum Supporter
2019 Supporter
2020 Supporter
2021 Supporter
#30
If we really want to worry about such stuff, we better stop producing just about everything.

And about mining vehicles, here is the largest EV in the world and it never needs to be charged.

-Don- Reno
It's been a long time since I got the degrees in Mechanical Engineering and Electronics, but after reading the article that the link above about the worlds Largest EV that never needs charging, my old brain and ancient math skill say "Something ain't right here, there ain't no free lunch or perpetual motion"....

Here's part of the article:

"The dump truck, at 45 tons, ascends the 13-percent grade and takes on 65 tons of ore. With more than double the weight going back down the hill, the beast's regenerative braking system recaptures more than enough energy to refill the charge the eDumper used going up.
Ok, that would mean that it produces a surplus of energy, and would never need recharging from an outside source, HOWEVER, read on...


The Elektro Dumper—eDumper for short—made by Kuhn Schweitz, is based on a Komatsu HB 605-7: 30 feet long, 14 feet wide, and 14 feet tall. The tires are six feet high, and the dump bed reaches to more than 28 feet, fully raised.

Kuhn Schweitz adds a 600 kilowatt-hour battery pack—big enough for six, long-range Tesla Model Ses—from Lithium Storage that weighs 9,000 pounds.

CNN recently brought Formula E driver Lucas DiGrassi along to test drive the machine, owned by Swiss cement company Ciments Vigier SA. He reported reaching the top of the grade with 80 percent, then recovering battery charge to 88 percent on the way down (not unlike our writer's experience with a Chevrolet Bolt EV in the Rockies.)
Huh? It took 20% going up but only gained 8% coming back down?

Marking that trip around 20 times a day, Kuhn Schweitz says the eDumper produces 200 kwh of surplus energy every day, or 77 megawatt-hours a year. A typical dump truck uses between 11,000 and 22,000 gallons of diesel fuel a year. That saves up to 196 metric tons of global-warming carbon-dioxide gas a year." End of my quoting the article.

Ok, if it starts up that 13% grade with a 100% charge in the battery, and it gets to the top with a 80% charge remaining, then it obviously used 20% of the charge to climb that 13% grade while empty.
Then it says the down hill trip once loaded the battery recovered TO 88% of full charge thanks to the regenerative braking.

OK, so a trip up takes 20% of the charge, and you regain 8% of it on the way down.........my math says that with a net loss of 12% per round trip, you are gonna get 7 round trips, starting with a 100% battery charge, before that battery is flat dead and will need recharging from an outside source.

So I definitely can't see it producing an surplus of 200 kwh of energy per day, to my way of thinking it is losing energy with each trip, or did I miss something due to my great age and advancing senility?

Thinks like friction loss get in the way, and also, as the temperature rises, the efficiency of those regenerative brakes, which are nothing more than alternators or DC generators, one or the other, will decline as well for as the copper windings in them heat up, the resistance goes up and so current flow will decline.

That's because in metals, the thermal conductivity is mostly a function of the motion of free electrons. As the temperature rises in a metal, the molecular vibrations increase which results in turn in a decreasing of the mean free path of molecules, and that means they will then obstruct the flow of free electrons, and that reduces the electrical conductivity.

Unless of course they are made of some room temperature super conductor that we haven't heard of yet.
 

DonTom

Obsessed Member
Forum Supporter
2019 Supporter
#33
or did I miss something
As a general rule, at moderate slow speeds, you can gain 10% of the energy to go back up the same hill at the same speed. At very slow speeds, it's even a bit better. So ~90% loss, right? That will never work!

But now think about this. You have a lot of weight going down at perhaps as high as 10 MPH. Now you go back up the same hill at one MPH with less weight and no regen, you still come out slightly ahead.

So yeah, it is possible. But it would be nice if they gave some real numbers to see exactly how they do it. But a difference in the uphill speed can make the difference compared to the downhill speed.

Even my little Energica motorcycle can charge at above 25,000 watts going down a hill. Think of how many KWs that vehicle gains with all that added weight at a slow speed, going at one tenth that speed back up the same hill with less a lot less weight.

Were you assuming the same speeds going back up the hill? I assumed it would be MUCH slower.

Besides, they should know if they need to recharge or not!

The problem with that article is they didn't give all the technical facts with real useable numbers, such as the KWHs used to go up the hill compared to the KWHs gained going down the same hill with the added weight, when the speeds are MUCH different. So I had to think it out and my conclusion is the same as theirs. Not only is it possible, it is being done!

73, -Don- AA6GA/7
 
Last edited:
#34
Don don't feel bad some people doesn't believe supercapacitor jump starters really work.
I have used one it worked. Lights on the car would turn on but there wasn't enough power to start the engine. But I left a supercapacitor charger on the battery for 15 minutes and it supplied enough power to turn over the engine briefly and it started. Don't know if there was enough power left in the battery try a second time, if it had not started the first try. You can also hook up the capacitor charger to a running car charge up the capacitors and then transfer that back over to the car needing a jump.

There was a time when lead acid batteries were the only thing around. People could never imagine a small carbon-based battery being put in a portable torch.
Then came alkaline batteries and nickel and now lithium-ion and who knows what's around the corner next.
Who knows in the next 10 years an electric car may be able to accept a 300 mile charge in 10 minutes and charging stations may be as plentiful as gas stations.
Biggest drawback to electric cars right now besides price, are the number of charging stations and the time it takes to charge the car to full capacity.
 
Last edited:

DonTom

Obsessed Member
Forum Supporter
2019 Supporter
#35
Don don't feel bad "nyecounty" doesn't believe
supercapacitor jump starters really work.
I don't feel bad at all. When I first read the article, I had the exact same thoughts at first, "Something ain't right here, there ain't no free lunch or perpetual motion"....

So then I thought about how it could be possible. Simple, go MUCH slower back up the same hill with less weight. Then there is no perpetual motion issue.

-Don- Reno, NV
 

DonTom

Obsessed Member
Forum Supporter
2019 Supporter
#36
Damn, I have to drive to San Francisco tomorrow to look at a gas guzzling Harley Trike!
I guess you're already on your way, but I was going to ask which way you're going to SF and if you would like to stay overnight at one of my houses, either here in Reno or Auburn. I have a total of 8 bedrooms I don't use! I don't even use the master bedroom at my Auburn house.

Anyway, I am now in Reno, but I will be taking a motorcycle to my Auburn place in a few minutes. Are you on-line as you travel as I always am?

Auburn is ~120 miles from SF. Have fun in that traffic near SF! I try my best to stay away from that area! And I used to live there!

-Don-
 
#37
Someone around here in Vegas is driving around with a trike that has a downsized 57 Chevy rear end on it. I don't know if I like it or not but it sure is unusual and neat. Best of both worlds maybe or worst :unsure:
 

DonTom

Obsessed Member
Forum Supporter
2019 Supporter
#38
Biggest drawback to electric cars right now besides price, are the number of charging stations and the time it takes to charge the car to full capacity.
Not much of a drawback in a country where the average driver drives less than 40 miles per day and only charges at home and/or work.

I have owned my Tesla for almost three years. I charged it on the street two times in those three years. Both were overnight trips. There are many who have never charged anywhere other than home. And some motels have Tesla Destination chargers. By far, most charging is done while the owners sleep.

However, I have charged my electric motorcycles on the street countless times during the middle of the day. Still not a big deal. I enjoy those breaks and usually do the same as I would do at home anyway, such as post a few messages here or in other forums, check my e-mail and etc. --or have lunch or whatever.

However, now expect the number of charge stations to around double every year in the USA.

-Don- Auburn, CA
 
Last edited:
#39
I owned a Chevy Volt for two years and it fit my needs almost perfectly. Fix up that was a pain in the a** for me to get in and out of. So I sold it for a comfortable SUV.
But if I need a car to drive up the Salt Lake City or Reno I don't want to have to rent a car or own one that's going to take 11 hours to get up there because it's going to take hours to charge. I don't care if I only make the trip once a year. I buy a vehicle to travel when I want and as far as I want, with out unnecessary wasted time waiting to re fuel.
You may enjoy the extended breaks for charging I Don't. I want get fuel hit the head and go.
I certainly am not going to wait hours for someone else's car to be charged all the chargers are in use. Forget about it isn't happening.
For me it's a 10 to 15 minute Affordable charge cycle with competitive stations. Till then it gas only.
 
Last edited:

DonTom

Obsessed Member
Forum Supporter
2019 Supporter
#40
Ok, if it starts up that 13% grade with a 100% charge in the battery, and it gets to the top with a 80% charge remaining,
Now that I have more time (now in Auburn, no longer rushing to leave Reno) I will go over some other points.

In most cases, it is best to not start at 100% SOC (State of Charge). The charge rate MUST slow down a lot near the top. Same is true at the very bottom of the SOC. Charge to 100% when it is needed for extra range and occasionally at other times for the best cell balancing.

But at least the 100% is at the bottom of the hill, but is it really 100 SOC? Or is that just an indication of where they want it?

Charging more times is faster than charging less times!:confused:o_O. ????

Less time will be spent recharging when at 35 % SOC and stopping the charge at 80% SOC. IOW, charge twice for ten minutes each instead of one time for more than 35 minutes to get the exact same miles added at the same type of charger.

The same happens with regen.

Regen power is VERY high in the midrange of the battery. Very low on each end. 80% SOC is too much for the top of the hill. They should try for 50% SOC on top of the hill and less than 80% SOC at the bottom.

But perhaps it indicates 100% SOC at that true 60%. That is an unknown, as we didn't design it. No doubt a lot of this stuff was thought about in the design.

But starting at real 100% SOC is a big waste of energy. You never want to be up there, except then you expect to discharge to below 10% at the end of the trip as you need the full possible range. In fact, regen turns completely off or to almost nothing in EVs when getting close to 100% SOC. The exception is for occasional cell balancing, once in a great while let it charge to full. And then use some of it so it doesn't stay at full too long.

Charging near full very inefficient. If the BMS (Battery Management System which is built into EV batteries) would let it really charge at the full rate near 100% SOC , the battery could catch fire if not explode.

My Tesla gives me a warning when charged to full as soon as I drive "Warning: REGEN temporality suspended".

My Energica says "Warning, no regen!" Get down to 95% and you get SOME regen. Full regen a few miles later, perhaps at 90%.

No regen means the car / bike will coast a lot better, and good coasting is NOT what EV owners expect. It means I will have to use the brake where I normally would not even need to touch it.

Look at the specs of charge times on most EVs. They rate them (let me check a manual here for a real number): "DC Fast Charge, 0-85% SOC in 20 minutes". That is from My Energica motorcycle manual. Now you know why they are rated in that way. They don't want to mention that very slow charge rate above 85% SOC. And it has started to slow down a little at perhaps 75% SOC. Then it's a progressive slowdown from there.

And to add a little more confusion to this issue, no EV battery will be 100% fully charged at 100 SOC. Nor will it be fully discharged at BELOW Zero SOC (there is a reserve) when the EV will no longer run (other than military Evs). EVs made for the military have a switch to use that very last 10 or 15% percent of the real charge (well below the 0 SOC indicated) that will most likely permanently ruin the very expensive battery but could save a life.

There are two specs for KWH on a battery. And some cheating goes on because of this. Zero Motorcycle cheats. Their 14.4 KWH battery can never be charged to that 14.4KWH. The BMS will not allow that very expensive battery to be ruined! It will charge to about 11.6 KWHs according to some battery techs in the electric motorcycle forum.

Energica does not cheat. Their spec reads like this "21.5 kWH max / 18.9 KWH nominal." It will stop being charged when at 18.9 KWH and all of that 18.9 KWH can be used.

73, -Don- AA6GA Auburn, CA