New Drama @ DSRPC?





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Amazing post, puravida!


The only thing I disagree with is your assessment that dues should be increased, or should have been. The fact that a surplus of over $300k was amassed, as the club ran and DID implement and build several upgrades over the last few years, is IMO proof that the current dues are more than adequate to run the club.

Quite frankly, we don't "need" running water or electricity. The club has been a nice place to shoot for over 60 years (I think) without those creature comforts.
Thanks man! Yea i'm not saying they should have been increased or not but the fact is we have no idea if they even should have been because we have to no reserve study to even tell us what components will need replacing and when they will need it and how much it will cost. If we had an engineering firm come in and do a proper reserve study they might say we should have 500k in reserves if we want to properly maintain the structures we currently have. Or, like you said, maybe they would say we only needed 200k. Either way we would then know how much money we needed on hand to address future club maintenance needs and how much we could actually spend. Currently we have no clue either way and thats not good. Knowledge is power and right now we are flying a bit blind.
 

steve

Obsessed Member
I have only been a member for around 10 years maybe. All the calls for a new board etc are fine. Except no one ever really wants to step up. It really can be a full time job. Evidence of that is the fact that this year was the first actual election in a long time. As well I keep seeing all these responses that the board shoots things down. That has not been my experience at meetings. They allow debate, they allow by law changes to be brought up, they allow the members to bring ideas forward to be voted on. BUT the fact that only about 30 members show up to vote or debate means that roughly 1% is making choices for the entire club. That is on us the members.
 
I have only been a member for around 10 years maybe. All the calls for a new board etc are fine. Except no one ever really wants to step up. It really can be a full time job. Evidence of that is the fact that this year was the first actual election in a long time. As well I keep seeing all these responses that the board shoots things down. That has not been my experience at meetings. They allow debate, they allow by law changes to be brought up, they allow the members to bring ideas forward to be voted on. BUT the fact that only about 30 members show up to vote or debate means that roughly 1% is making choices for the entire club. That is on us the members.
perhaps a more modern way of running things could be implemented, i.e., having proposals voted on via email to members?

One would hope that perhaps there would be 300 votes for any given motion, instead of 30. (or 1% of the membership, assuming a membership of roughly 3000).
 

4x4Brit

Worktruck Driver
perhaps a more modern way of running things could be implemented, i.e., having proposals voted on via email to members?

One would hope that perhaps there would be 300 votes for any given motion, instead of 30. (or 1% of the membership, assuming a membership of roughly 3000).
Agreed. Some people’s schedules don’t allow to attend. Electronic voting should be in any plan moving forward.
 
I have only been a member for around 10 years maybe. All the calls for a new board etc are fine. Except no one ever really wants to step up. It really can be a full time job. Evidence of that is the fact that this year was the first actual election in a long time. As well I keep seeing all these responses that the board shoots things down. That has not been my experience at meetings. They allow debate, they allow by law changes to be brought up, they allow the members to bring ideas forward to be voted on. BUT the fact that only about 30 members show up to vote or debate means that roughly 1% is making choices for the entire club. That is on us the members.
They do allow debate at the meetings however I think what people are referring to when they say the board shoots things down is the following:

1.) Many many many bylaw changes have been proposed over the years designed to limit the e board’s ability to terminate memberships based on trivial things. The board has a history of terminating people from the club for things that they basically didn’t like. We all understand things like theft, violent act, threatening remarks should result in termination but other than that there should be no terminations just because someone is an (a**hole).

2.) The very things we are all advocating for to make the club better (electronic check in, converting all club records to digital copies, utilizing a professional bookkeeper, conducting a reserve study, sending out information via email, utilizing a POS system so we can accept credit card payments at the gate, etc) have all been suggested time and time again to the board but everything was “shot down.” Also, it should not go without saying, that many of these aforementioned suggestions, fall within the board’s normal scope of daily duties of running the club and would not even require the vote of the membership. And the items that do require the vote of the membership should be placed on a meeting agenda by the board and presented to the members by the board as to why this would be a good upgrade for the club. That positioning would go a long way vs a fed up member making a motion at a meeting that then becomes a topic of contention.

The opinion of many people, and they may be right, is that this course of action occurs because the board and some select members of the club are terrified of change and the possibility of losing control of, what they unfortunately think, is their own personal property.

Whoever SERVES on a board, needs to keep in mind they should always be thinking about what is the common good for the organization. Personal feelings, grudges, disagreements, etc need to be cast aside for the good of the club.
 

AngryRed

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2019 Supporter
They do allow debate at the meetings however I think what people are referring to when they say the board shoots things down is the following:

1.) Many many many bylaw changes have been proposed over the years designed to limit the e board’s ability to terminate memberships based on trivial things. The board has a history of terminating people from the club for things that they basically didn’t like. We all understand things like theft, violent act, threatening remarks should result in termination but other than that there should be no terminations just because someone is an (a**hole).

2.) The very things we are all advocating for to make the club better (electronic check in, converting all club records to digital copies, utilizing a professional bookkeeper, conducting a reserve study, sending out information via email, utilizing a POS system so we can accept credit card payments at the gate, etc) have all been suggested time and time again to the board but everything was “shot down.” Also, it should not go without saying, that many of these aforementioned suggestions, fall within the board’s normal scope of daily duties of running the club and would not even require the vote of the membership. And the items that do require the vote of the membership should be placed on a meeting agenda by the board and presented to the members by the board as to why this would be a good upgrade for the club. That positioning would go a long way vs a fed up member making a motion at a meeting that then becomes a topic of contention.

The opinion of many people, and they may be right, is that this course of action occurs because the board and some select members of the club are terrified of change and the possibility of losing control of, what they unfortunately think, is their own personal property.

Whoever SERVES on a board, needs to keep in mind they should always be thinking about what is the common good for the organization. Personal feelings, grudges, disagreements, etc need to be cast aside for the good of the club.
Puravida for Club President 2021...
 
They do allow debate at the meetings however I think what people are referring to when they say the board shoots things down is the following:

1.) Many many many bylaw changes have been proposed over the years designed to limit the e board’s ability to terminate memberships based on trivial things. The board has a history of terminating people from the club for things that they basically didn’t like. We all understand things like theft, violent act, threatening remarks should result in termination but other than that there should be no terminations just because someone is an (a**hole).

2.) The very things we are all advocating for to make the club better (electronic check in, converting all club records to digital copies, utilizing a professional bookkeeper, conducting a reserve study, sending out information via email, utilizing a POS system so we can accept credit card payments at the gate, etc) have all been suggested time and time again to the board but everything was “shot down.” Also, it should not go without saying, that many of these aforementioned suggestions, fall within the board’s normal scope of daily duties of running the club and would not even require the vote of the membership. And the items that do require the vote of the membership should be placed on a meeting agenda by the board and presented to the members by the board as to why this would be a good upgrade for the club. That positioning would go a long way vs a fed up member making a motion at a meeting that then becomes a topic of contention.

The opinion of many people, and they may be right, is that this course of action occurs because the board and some select members of the club are terrified of change and the possibility of losing control of, what they unfortunately think, is their own personal property.

Whoever SERVES on a board, needs to keep in mind they should always be thinking about what is the common good for the organization. Personal feelings, grudges, disagreements, etc need to be cast aside for the good of the club.

I was suspended with a hearing, a violation of the bylaws and when I tried to make the membership aware of the continued violations by the Executive Board they terminated my membership. 20-30 showed up to support me at the next meeting and the President would NOT allow discussion of the issue, a violation of MEMBER RIGHTS to bring up business at a meeting. The members can suspend rules if they like with a 2/3s vote.
 

steve

Obsessed Member
perhaps a more modern way of running things could be implemented, i.e., having proposals voted on via email to members?

One would hope that perhaps there would be 300 votes for any given motion, instead of 30. (or 1% of the membership, assuming a membership of roughly 3000).

Sure. I and many would go for that. There is a link I think on the website to submit By law changes. In this case that what would be needed.
 

steve

Obsessed Member
I was suspended with a hearing, a violation of the bylaws and when I tried to make the membership aware of the continued violations by the Executive Board they terminated my membership. 20-30 showed up to support me at the next meeting and the President would NOT allow discussion of the issue, a violation of MEMBER RIGHTS to bring up business at a meeting. The members can suspend rules if they like with a 2/3s vote.

What rules did you allegedly violate?
 
What rules did you allegedly violate?
I do not know, never had a hearing just a letter saying I was suspended. I never violated a bylaw. Why I was terminated, I do not know exactly but puravida stated "...The board has a history of terminating people from the club for things that they basically didn’t like...."

When I was on the board, I actually submitted language to end this practice among MANY OTHER bylaw changes. They were all ignored by the board. When the current president was steamrolled onto the board due to one vacancy that was it and I resigned as he and those that steamrolled him onto the board showed me that the status quo, NO CHANGE, NO IMPROVEMENTS, would continue. It was a losing battle.
 

Marketingslime

Excessive Headspace
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2019 Supporter
I do not know, never had a hearing just a letter saying I was suspended. I never violated a bylaw. Why I was terminated, I do not know exactly but puravida stated "...The board has a history of terminating people from the club for things that they basically didn’t like...."

When I was on the board, I actually submitted language to end this practice among MANY OTHER bylaw changes. They were all ignored by the board. When the current president was steamrolled onto the board due to one vacancy that was it and I resigned as he and those that steamrolled him onto the board showed me that the status quo, NO CHANGE, NO IMPROVEMENTS, would continue. It was a losing battle.
Stop playing the victim here. You know damn well why you were terminated:

You were the instigator in an argument on the range that you escalated to a physical altercation. Aside from the other complaints filed against you by multiple members previously, that was the straw that broke the camels back.

Despite the accusations of capriciousness, the board has rarely used the nuclear option to terminate memberships, with roughly one termination per year. Besides the aforementioned reason, I can recall seven other terminations since 2001:

1. Posing for pictures with firearms deliberately pointed directly at a person’s head and body (within inches).
2. Running a Gun Tourism business for tourists on the range (terminated after second warning)
3. Reckless driving down range on a live fire (hot) range
4. Running an NRA Training for profit business on the range.
5. Negligent discharge of a firearm at an indoor Club event.
6. Skimming cash from match receipts (2).
 

Marketingslime

Excessive Headspace
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2019 Supporter
I was suspended with a hearing, a violation of the bylaws and when I tried to make the membership aware of the continued violations by the Executive Board they terminated my membership. 20-30 showed up to support me at the next meeting and the President would NOT allow discussion of the issue, a violation of MEMBER RIGHTS to bring up business at a meeting. The members can suspend rules if they like with a 2/3s vote.
Three people showed up to argue in support of you
 
Three people showed up to argue in support of you
Arlan PLEASE there were MANY more but due to the Eboard, which you were NOT on at that time, not allowing discussions they were quite. What really matters is that BYLAWS were VIOLATED MANY MANY TIMES. Please stop trying to protect the guilty the Eboard at the time. You do not have to defend them as you were not part of it then.
 

Marketingslime

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2019 Supporter
Sure. I and many would go for that. There is a link I think on the website to submit By law changes. In this case that what would be needed.
The only way I know of to ensure the integrity of an electronic vote vote is by using a two-factor authentication system using member number and a device like an RSA fob. The fob would add $25/year to membership fees, plus whatever the cost to implement and administer such a system. Any system integrators want to volunteer for the task? Of course, those who are not computer literate will complain...they can just come to the meeting.

Would it make sense to move the General Membership Meetings to a larger venue closer to the middle of town?
 

Marketingslime

Excessive Headspace
Forum Supporter
2019 Supporter
Arlan PLEASE there were MANY more but due to the Eboard, which you were NOT on at that time, not allowing discussions they were quite. What really matters is that BYLAWS were VIOLATED MANY MANY TIMES. Please stop trying to protect the guilty the Eboard at the time. You do not have to defend them as you were not part of it then.
I was at that meeting You were not, for obvious reasons. That was the approximate number of members I recall speaking on your behalf. If there were more there for you, they remained silent. As you have noted, I have no dog in this hunt.
 
I was at that meeting You were not, for obvious reasons. That was the approximate number of members I recall speaking on your behalf. If there were more there for you, they remained silent. As you have noted, I have no dog in this hunt.
Yes I was not there as the EBoard suspended me WITHOUT a hearing and prevented me from defending myself on charges what were never explained. You should be interested as transparency and the truth should be your fiduciary responsibility to the club and its members. Unfortunately many on the Eboard that eludes them. I thought, which maybe I am wrong, that you tried to do the right thing. Hiding misdoings that current eboard members have done is a sign of someone that should not be on the Eboard.

Arlan stand up and be righteous, find out the truth, do the right thing, take your fiduciary responsibility seriously and stop protect those that should not be protected. I for one know I never violated a bylaw and ALWAYS held my fiduciary responsibility to the club and its members highly.
 

MAC702

LEGEN...wait for it... DARY!
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The only way I know of to ensure the integrity of an electronic vote vote is by using a two-factor authentication system using member number and a device like an RSA fob. The fob would add $25/year to membership fees, plus whatever the cost to implement and administer such a system. ...
That sounds way too secure and intrusive. Can I just have the Club checkbook instead?
 
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